Btw, my MSB friend and I used the internal analog preamp for MSB and built-in digital preamp for DAVE. Thank me laterLoL. If you currently have an MSB DAC or amplifier that you lovebut are looking to experience more from your systemplease reach out to your local dealer. At some point you have to be content in this hobby. I don't have that kind of money. MSB Discrete | The Ear I did try with just the one power supply and the Discrete remained a very strong performer with the differences being a very slight loss in the sense of separation and definition when listening intently. Elegant design. And this is what separates the very good from the excellent piece of audio equipment. Amplification: Cyrus Mono x300Signatures. With two prime DACs, we yield an unprecedented level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. The Chord Qutest DAC has the same DAC architecture and filters as the Chord Hugo 2. This would help to take your digital playback upa few levels. What is available on models higher up the MSB food chain is the ability to add an analogue module so that you can use the unit as a true preamplifier and DAC. Up to 32 bit 768kHz This latter recording gets played to death at shows, but that doesnt detract from it being a very good tune and a very good recording, though I have been known to take the piss a bit when it gets played for the tenth time in a day at audio events. This is a review, detailed measurements and listening tests of CHORD DAVE combination DAC and headphone amplifier. Nothing was amiss. But then we have to apply the law of diminishing returns. The only other items in the chain were the Stack streamer and a pretty well-sorted network setup. The MSB Discrete, as I mentioned, came with two power supplies but you can operate it with just one with the supplied doodad. There are some tonal differences too, but what you prefer will depend on your other equipment and the music you like. But DAVE also seems to me to highlight the original recording so if the recording is flat, the playback sounds flat (still with great accurate timbre) but if the recording really showcase the soundstage and the 3-dimensionality of the instruments and vocals, DAVE really portrays that well. Chord Dave Black New The Prime DAC With two prime DACs, MSB yields an unprecedented level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you Ps Audio Directstream Dac Vs Auralic Vega Founded in 2004, Games for Change is a 501(c)3 nonprofit that empowers game creators and . Thanks guys! auditioned the Rockna Wavedream Edition DAC. And what streamer are you using to feed the DAC? I'll take a look, however I've heard they're on the warm side? MSB are an American brand headed up by the brothers Jonathan and Daniel Gullman and located in Silicon Valley, California where they design and build a range of amplifiers, transports, and DACs. When I have done the comparison with other DACs I have had at the same time - Ayre QX5-Twenty, EAR Dac 4, exasound e32 - often the immediate impression is that DAVE/Blu 2 is not quite as good - a bit dryer sounding, not quite as smooth, not as airy or three dimensional And yet, over the longer term, it is deeply satisfying at a musical level in a way that the other DACs are not. But MSB Select 2 is regarded by many as the best thats why for something 1/10 of the price to compete in anyones eyes is quite an accomplishment. dacs and server competed against much more expensive dacs and servers sound wise However, Id argue that there is sort of two trains of thought on this subject; one where theres absolute fidelity to the source material at all costs, and another that sounds great though to the listener but perhaps not absolutely true to the original source and I dont think its unfair to say that both these positions have their place in the world of playing tunes at home. The DAVE DAC does not perform anywhere near where it should. Wherever I read I see unanimous praise for the MSB Select II. Personally, I think that both these standpoints have their merits and its going to be a case of you paying your money and you taking your choice. He liked the Mola Mola Tambaqui over these others listed below. Regular readers will appreciate all that is taken from the MSB website and I make no apologies for not really understanding the electronics. . MSB Technology [Select DAC II Full Option] Chord [Dave] Myek [Manhattan II] I had A-B test about 2 months. I havent heard the Rockna. How does it compare? Since opening our doors in 1986, weve been driven by one goal: to craft an unrivaled listening experience for music lovers across the globe. If you take a look at their website you will see that the machining shop is a fully equipped facility designed to meet the needs of a company producing high-quality cases in which the electronics will be fitted no off the shelf or cheap bent metal cases here! Roon/Jriver 22 -> Ayre QX-5 Twenty -> Ayre AX-5 Twenty -> B&W N802D (Transparent Cables). The Base module has two outputs (high and low) depending on whether you are outputting to a preamplifier or directly to a power amplifier. To each their own, but I think Chord sounds cold and artificial. @shkong78 how good is the dave + mscaler vs msb? Looking forward to the your additions to the list. At this kind of price, it puts Chord DAVE as being direct competition and I said that DAVE was the best DAC Id heard back in 2018. comes down to knowing what you are actually trying to achieve in a high end This is a company that is All American and fiercely proud of that fact. This is a dealers email comment to me about comparisons he did. Personally we have A/B 76 different digital front ends. Hope to try different formats on both DACs to see what works best in my system. I could easily live with any of these. Great Dac but for me a NOS DAC (Metrum Adagio) won the contest over all the others Dacs I have tried so far. CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE | Page 887 - Head-Fi II cannot do anything but award this DAC our highest award, but that award goes with the caveats that it should be used directly into an amplifier and that Id like to have had the options for analogue inputs. Looks like your budget goes up to ~$20k? MQA decoding Not sure why you would spend so much on a DAC when the Crane Song Solaris is available at $1,949. Msb Discrete Dac Vs Dave Chord [YKHGV1] Sonically it is very much as its name suggests and converts files faithfully and without loss or (importantly) embellishment. I auditioned a DAVE (not deconstructed) and TT2 and found all Chord products lacked the musicality of MSB. I don't want to waste hifi shops time too much knowing I'll be going second hand either. It's too damn expensive, full stop. The Pro USB is offered as a stand alone module for users who already have an MSB DAC that is equipped with a Pro ISL input as well as a starter kit with a Pro ISL input and everything you need to get up and running. I agree with your statement. Ill not get into the whole detail of this here but the MSB website does have an excellent (and interesting) explanation of jitter and why having a very low jitter clock is favourable to having a very accurate clock theres a link at the bottom of this review. Please specify coaxial S/PDiF or optical S/PDiF. The SQ from DAC headphone output is lower than the best headphone amplifier but that kind of amplifier costs close to DAVE itself. Who knows ?! We are Sign up for a new account in our community. Its headphone amplifier is good but no match for higher powered units. I hope to also have an opportunity to listen to a T+A DAC8 (for DSD512) and a Chord Dave (DSD256) in my system soon (with HQPlayer). It may not display this or other websites correctly. I've sometimes heard people say that DAVE is too bright or analytical for them. Unless they have the exact same components as the end user, it's impossible to tell that customer how component X will sound in their system. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. As I said, its an odd one to describe but you do hear it as it brings a sense of rightness to rhythm tracks. Audiogon Discussion Forum Even at very low listening levels, it was clear that the MSB was delivering a clean analogue output to the ampand Im aware that sounds a bit vague. After that you are GOLDEN. There is no dark magic involved. MSB DACs also use a processing chip to handle oversampling and digital filtering (not sure if this chip is an FPGA or other type processing chip, but it is a high speed digital processing chip). Daedalus Audio Apollo 11's. REL S3/SHO. "OK, it would be. I'm doing this off the top of my head. johndoe21ro Audiogon Discussion Forum So this was headphones straight out of the DAVE? I could not so, after 2 years of trying, I bought it. I'm super happy with my Esoteric N-01, which is a noticeable step up in quality/musicality from the DAVE - as yes the DAVE sounds a bit "thin" (though extraordinarily detailed). Given your appreciation of the Pacific Microsonics DAC, I hope you'll get a chance to hear the Berkeley in your system as well. I don't like Dave with or without upsampler but I do like Auralic G2 with their upsampler and clock. Chord Msb Dac Dave Vs Discrete [FZ8OTP] - amministrato.to.it Jon Hopkins Music For Psychedelic Therapy was a beautifully enveloping experience, made all the more so as sounds come and go in the soundstage in a somewhat more solid way than without the usual DAC. Founded in 2010 Whats Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. This kind of sound really appeals to me and was really excellent to experience on lots of tunes, but was especially evident on tracks from Rumours with every part of the mix being identifiable as unique. The only true way for the end user to know what they prefer is through listening in their own system.. Would I pay extra for the second supply? MSB Discrete DAC - What's Best Forum One of the things I jotted down in my notes during this time was the sense of scale the Discrete brought to the music I was listening to big music sounded BIG and more intimate recordings had their own scale too. Sablon Audio King/Prince power cords throughout. Additionally, MSBs robust in-house design enables the finest quality playback of PCM and native DSD, while our low impedance circuitry drives your amplification directly without adding coloration or buffering noise. To cut a long story short: A burnt in MSB Analog DAC with Power Base demoed side to side to a burnt in DAVE was no challenge for the MSB. @ricred1, youre right to point that out. 2 DAC | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech Classic 550L jumpers, Shunyata PCs / Eth. MSB Technology Premier Digital-to-Analog Converter September 6, 2016 in DAC - Digital to Analog Conversion. There are a lot of people that absolutely love the M-scaler. The Discrete DAC Features - MSB Technology lastly; what I compare my MSB Select II to every day is my top level vinyl and top level reel to reel tape. It's UPDATE VIDEO THREE for the Chord Electronics DAVE DAC REVIEW I have spent a lot more time with the DAVE Dac, still using. Some very good advice here. Whats Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. Height with feet: 68 mm Weight: 8.2 kg, Accessories included: Manual Remote control Aluminum MSB USB charging cable 4 X Spikes and Cups 4 X plastic inserts Power connector splitter, MERASON FRROT DAC REVIEW The Merason Frrot DAC costing 995 isn't the first thing that comes to mind when we think of Switzerland. The By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies. You are using an out of date browser. Well build a personalized offer for your existing MSB products that count towards a new DAC or amplifier. $16K Signature DAC sound? About Chord Vs Dac Discrete Msb Dave . With two prime DACs, the MSB Discrete yields an unprecedented level of detail that reproduces the musicality, soundstage and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. It is just as important as the DAC itself. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates. You already have a very top tier DAC. The only true way for the end user to know what they prefer is through listening in their own system. It's embarrassing. The sonic signature is detailed and yet easy to listen to, with the Discrete bringing a sense of the recordings scale (big or small) to the listening experience. comparing top dacs directly is a bit challenging, even if you have them both together. Snookered into the Chord Electronics Hugo TT2? - A Review Oppo Modwright BDP-205 full mod. You might want to consideradding oneof Chord's Upscalers, either HugoM scaler, or the Blu Mk. All rights reserved. Australian Business Number 38 650 151 296, Digital Sources, DACs, and Computer Audio, Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream. subjective to a point and that is why we do blind testing and A/B testing with I'm looking for suggestions between $10K - $12K. ), Chord Hugo 2 Review (Portable DAC & HP Amp), DAC Noise Modulation: Chord DAVE vs Topping DX7 Pro+, Digital To Analog (DAC) Reviews and Discussion, Amplifiers, Phono preamp, and Analog Audio Review. For sure with Hugo and Qutenot even debatable. The Dave as a DAC actually sounds decent. the North American distributors for Rockna so I thought I would jump in on this This all-American theme is continued in the companys PCB Shop where they use circuit boards produced for them in Silicon Valley, which are then made ready for the automated adding of the smaller components and hand-fitting bulkier components before washing and inspection. frequency response graphs, CSD waterfall plots, subjective gear reviews. Powered by Invision Community. There hasn't been any direct comparison of them with Select II, Trinity DAC, CH D1/C1, Totaldac D12 etc in Hong Kong yet. You must log in or register to reply here. Perhaps thats a bit of an odd example for me to use as its a bit World Music but you are also made aware of the rightness of timing on percussive techno tracks. MSB Technology Discrete Modular DAC Page 2. More to follow. I've had many world class DACS in my studio over the years and the Crane Song is as good as any no matter the cost. I wish you would have had the Totaldac D1 Seven to try. The PSUs are available to match. Was it a speaker setup or headphone setup? Too objective for subjectivists; too subjective for objectivsts. The MSB Discrete DAC is an American made Digital to Analogue Converter costing 11,000 plus an extra 1650 for the second external power supply. StereoNET (Australia) is part of an international network of publications owned wholly by Sound Media Group (Australia). dCS Bartok>Chord DAVE>MSB discrete discreteR2R R2R DAVE BartokdCSBartok I may need to reset expectations a bit lower: This is an update to some old DAVE vibration control posts. To me, the instrumental timbre seems more accurate with DAVE than any other DACs I've heard. In my assessment the Makua offered a more open and spacious sound. It is an unassuming but very nicely put together component that has had a great deal of thought put into the architecture of the parts that make it up. First I want to say that I fully agree that the hobby is My friend who owns the Diamond DAC IV prefers the MSB. The more observant of you will have read this and noticed that there is no mains inlet. And differences at that level can be good. Focusing on our network renderer and USB input, your audio tech will be on the cutting edge. This unit came with two power supplies and Ill be playing with the DAC with one and with two to compare and contrast. That's the negative to going my route I guess. The MSB simply offered more of everything and to my ears proved again that a true multi bit converter/ladder DAC is superior to delta/sigma or FPGA DACs. An FPGA does not have analog output, in the Chord DACs, VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623, : SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels, http://igg.me/at/geekpulseaudio/x/5216671. Mind you, I have chipless DSD with 1 bit processing, so the bar is set VERY high for me. @ricred1, I would like to suggest you take a look at the Mola Mola Tambaqui when it arrives later this month I understand. Its not bombarding you with information, but it is a notably more defined sound with regards to the spatial information and the way that elements sit in the mix a tad more solidity and more of a sense of the stereo image being wider and deeper and with instruments and sounds occupying a definite space of their own. SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 256-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical--Bricasti M3 DAC--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. Up to 1km lossless transmission. The SQ is amazingly good. - Up to 32 bit - 768kHz. I listen mostly to classical music, particularly with symphonic work, I prefer DAVE to MSB. I have had Dave in my system. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Did you audition all of them in the same place with the same system? I suppose that the vast majority of people who listen for pleasure at home are looking for a balance between the two, and whilst I still maintain we are most likely to hear the biggest effect in a system by changing transducers, every element in the chain of sound will affect the final sound and, in a digital system, I think the DAC you choose can have a huge effect on the final sound. It matches Chord Dave and Mscaler on dynamics with slightly more bass slam. Right now my favorite music player is from the same manufacturer of the Phasure NOS1a DAC: Stealth LPS running XXHighEnd software; again with the same caveat that I haven't heard a lot of the other highly regarded music players in my system. If you have a turntable, for instance, the Discrete will have to act as a standalone DAC and go into a preamplifier/integrated amplifier which will then add its own flavour to the mix. In that time, weve pushed the industry forward with each product weve built, redefining whats possible. UPnP Protocol However, the extra PSU does add to the cost considerably! If so I'd recommend the Aqua Formula xHD and the TotalDAC d1-Seven. Not a bad idea Snoop! Chord states "DAVE is the most advanced DAC we have ever made. I can leave my hand on it as long as I want to. Does anyone have formula for that? Like x 5 List Once you add the second discrete PS, and a module or two for it to work, the price goes over $23-24K. The modular nature of MSB products allows you to have the bits you want and leave out those you dont, The display is a bit basic but it does what it needs to and you can see it from the other side of the room, Detail and transparency are the main features, Allows a real insight into the makeup of a track, Brings a sense of timing being bang on the money, Detail isnt a result of the higher frequencies being artificially pushed, Both PSUs are not absolutely necessary but once you remove one you want to put the other back in. Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator, https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/absolute-top-tier-dac-for-standard-res-redbook-cd. The Discrete DAC, the successor and highly improved replacement to the now-famous Analog DAC is the MSB DAC that everyone has been waiting for. Roon Endpoint I'd also look at the Mola-Mola Tambaqui and the new dCS Bartok. Set up is key, cables are super important, server is also It is a pretty DAC but usability is left behind. Edited November 11, 2020 by seadog. However, to get this level of separation and detail within the soundscape the DAC is clearly having a very important role to play. More sharing . Can I ask how you procured all those DACs? Over the air updates will ensure that your renderer always has the latest capabilities and ultimate convenience. Like a true audiophile with "issues", I'm saying to myself, if at $8300 I think is a good general rule of thumb, but there are some very transparent passive pre-amps out there. - MQA decoding. That statement makes sense in an analog paradigm. I have great synergy in my system and see no reason to listen to every new DAC out there. No matter what ice cream you prefer, I prefer something else. Dave gets a "thumbs up" overall from me though. Of those, I've only heard the DAVE. state his/her experience and preferences. You go off people's opinions and hope it'll match your equipment and system when you put the hard earned down. It was a speaker setup (as in my signature.) Subjective grading of DACs that I had heard during last one year period Digital: Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet >Antipodes K30> Shunyata Omega USB> Gustard X26pro DAC < Mutec REF10 SE120, Amp& Speakers: Spectral DMA-150mk2 >Aerial 10T, Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra,ShunyataDenali v1 andTyphon power conditioners,Shunyata Delta v2 and QSA Lanedri Gamma power cords, QSA Lanedri GammaRevelationinterconnect,Shunyata SigmaEthernet,MIT Matrix HD60speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels. Concluding that there is some kind of problem with using an FPGA vs. what MSB does is not technically supportable. will every hear. I submit dealers use the statement "component X competes against much more expensive components" far too often. heard, I could easily live with the Aeris, Dave, or Wavedream. The end result is a digital experience defying expectations. The BADA Ref is a great DAC and I understand the new version takes it to even another level. Congratulations on the upgrade and enjoy it in good health. It will kick your ass. Funny how Rob Watts drones on and on about noise modulation, and then we see his product performing like this.. now one might not exactly call this noise modulation, but it definitely something to avoid, especially given the price tag. other dacs I have enjoyedin no particular order; I would not call this second tier; but I prefer what hear from my Select II to what Ive heard from these. Once you start playing a tune the DAC works out the sample rate and chooses the correct playback clock. As you pursue higher levels of playback, an MSB upgrade path is always available to help drive your own desire for innovation. As it stands, the Discrete offers a very good solution should you be a music lover that plays only digital files and you can go straight into a power amp. Fixed. But dont take our word for it. Talking of cool lets talk about this remote. I don't understand why Chord DACs have to be so damn ugly! I just heard DAVE directly connected to MacBook Pro via USB without any expensive cables, headphone amplifier, power conditioner. I actually like the simplicity of this and it is very intuitive to use when you get into setting up and menu diving, though diving is over-egging it a bit as the Discrete is a doddle to set upif you do it right, but more on that in a while. Also; recently MSB introduced a new interface that optimizes USB and adds fibre to reduce noise, the MSB Pro USB. Out of all of the DACs I've Best DACs comparison test result [[My Subjective Opinion]] In that price range, you would be mad not to addthe MSB Premier DAC to your list as well. The Discrete DAC uses two of these modules per unit. You'll be shocked by how much you lose by going through a separate preamp. All in all the Discrete DAC is beautiful looking, minimal, easy to set up (its all but plug and play if you turn both the PSUs on) and it feels like a proper bit of audio engineering. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. I hope you understand. But the differences between great DACs is small. Mola Mola Pre/dac review compared to DAVE dac - Page 2 - DAC - Digital Dealer's should be required to state they're a dealer every time they post or have a disclaimer in their username. I'm not an absolutist, and frankly, I could be happy with any of the DACs I mentioned. Stainless steel buttons arrayed around an elegant volume wheel to optimize performance and response. Whatever, the Discrete is a superb bit of kit that Id really love to take up residence in the system on a permanent basis, but thats not going to happen. Best DACs comparison test result [[My Subjective Opinion]] The Dave is VERY lovely on PCM, and pretty decent on DSD, but DSD is not its raison d'etre. Any MSB fans here ? - Page 3 - DAC - Digital to Analog Conversion Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites, Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623, DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels, You need to be a member in order to leave a comment.
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